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Re: Final Farewell??
Imagine that, a member on this list finally speaking his mind to
<PROJECT>LinuxPorts - http://www.linuxports.com </PROJECT>
<WEBMASTER>LDP - http://www.linuxdoc.org </WEBMASTER>
On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Tim wrote:
> Hello to all,
> Let me just preface this by saying that these are my views and comments
> and mine alone, not those of the LDP. I'm not asking for pity, nor a
> shoulder to cry on.
> <have a seat....this could be lengthy>
> I've sat back and watched once again as my name and the job I do get
> dragged through the mud. This time I can't and will not sit back and
> watch this happen *again* and turn my back.
> As for the complaints and removing of documents , all I can say is this,
> I'm sorry for the problems that occured and I'm sorry that he felt that he
> needed to be 1) rude and 2) disrespectful not only to me, but all others
> subscribed to the list. This is my personal opinion and not necessarily
> those of others, so don't go blaming the LDP for the comments that I am
> making. These are *not* the views of the LDP, these are my own personal
> views and comments. Please don't confuse the two.
> Many times I have asked how I was doing, I've asked for suggestions and
> assistance. Rarely if ever do I receive a comment one, but let one person
> have a complaint (in a very imperfect world I might add) and the walls
> just come crumbling down.
> Like it or not, the LDP has progressed and I have assisted in this
> process. No one has once asked how the processing of HOWTOs actually
> works or even cared enough to do so. Some discussions did take place, and
> I did try to explain, but I honestly don't think anyone was listening (I
> feel this a lot).
> I've asked for feedback from authors/maintainers and even made suggestions
> that they get more involved. This was over a year ago (probably close to
> 2) and no one had time or no one cared to respond at any length. I asked
> if the authors/maintainers would like to assist in approving documents
> submittals and I got 0% response.....that's right nothing.
> I've created pages for updates and for current projects to allow others to
> know what's going on and to hopefully get them involved. Did this
> accomplish anything? Honestly I don't know b/c no one has ever bothered
> to comment on them.
> It seems that the ldp-discuss list (and others) has become nothing short
> of a means of pulic humiliation and I'm not just talking about myself.
> This is *not* what the list is for. Public bickering back and forth has
> no place on this list. Sure, it may help you to get your point across,
> but if that's all you want, then surely you could find a better means.
> I've even publicly made available my pager via a paging server. Do you
> think I did this for kicks? It was done to give anyone who wanted
> *direct* access to me for whatever reason they had that ability. I'm not
> asking anyone to use it, but I did state that it was there to be used if
> you needed it.
> I understand that a lot of time is spent by authors/maintainers updating
> docs. But do you think the rest of us have no other life outside the LDP?
> We all (I assume) are responsible adults and I find it a crying shame that
> more of us don't act like it when presented with a public forum.
> It's not my nature to be a downer or have a negative attitude and I feel
> that I've held my head high for good reason in regards to being the HOWTO
> Coordinator. I'm not perfect, nor is the job I do, but I do take pride in
> it and that should account for something. ???
> As for the missed/lost docs that have recently been brought to
> ldp-discuss, again I have apologized...publicly.
> There have been many new additions and many updates to the HOWTOs (I use
> this generally I include mini-HOWTOs and FAQs) and to accuse me of
> deliberately ignoring someone or deliberately setting their update aside
> or basically just having better things to do with my time is unacceptable,
> untrue and a complete disrespect to me and what I do.
> In the past (whether there were complaints or not) I asked if others were
> happy with what I was doing. I've even asked if anyone would like me to
> step down and look for someone else to take my place as the HOWTO
> Cooridnator. It was rather quiet, but the comments that were made
> appreciated what I was doing and asked that I hang in there. Where are
> those folks now when push comes to shove?!?
> When you believe in something strong enough you'll do what you can to
> survive and keep it going. This is how I felt (feel more often than not)
> about the HOWTO Coordinator position and the LDP.
> I must say this.....the way the move (if that's what you want to call it)
> from Metalab (formerly Sunsite) was handled was inexcusable. This I'm
> afraid *is* a direct reflection on the LDP. I do not blame Guylhem for
> how things were handled nor should anyone else. People did nothing but
> complain about the way things were going and Guylhem asked for feedback
> and as with me got little response and the majority of the responses were
> not solutions but rather threads that turned into many lines of
> nothingness, meaning that nothing was ever being resolved so he took
> matters into his own hands. Was this not the reason that he was *voted*
> into position? It's his job to deal with the flack and I think he's done
> so. People may not have agreed with it, but there was action and in the
> long run that's what we asked for.
> As for the Copyright/Licensing debate that's been going on (for how long
> now?) I'm afraid it has gotten old and extremely tired. I think it's
> great that we come up with something that we can *all* live with, but the
> area seems to have been completely blurred between Copyright and
> Licensing. And to think that we can at this time mandate something of this
> sort is beyond me. The LDP is *not* in the position to mandate a matter
> like this, at least not right now. My personal opinion is that
> an unofficial "offical" manifesto should be written up and put out for
> public display and scrutiny, and let's move on. What is in place now is
> sufficient and has been for all these years with minor tweaking along the
> way. I've always told authors to use what's in place if *they* are
> comfortable with it....not me. If they choose to tweak it to *their*
> liking then that is *their* perrogative. Please for the sake of the LDP
> let this matter be put aside. Perhaps someone outside the LDP would be
> more suitable for this task?
> As for the CVS matter, I will say this. *I* (and don't believe that
> anyone else did) did not turn down Metalab there offer of CVS? As
> a matter of fact, the one person (me) responsible for getting the updates
> to Metalab has not even discussed the matter of CVS with anyone at
> Metalab. Another mis-communication, I would say, but it's problems like
> these that we're trying to improve on. Yes, I have been working on a CVS
> solution, does that mean that I would not choose to use Metalab if their
> services were offered, not only no, but heck no. I would gladly accept!
> I am working on the finer details of the CVS and how things will be
> handled. Everyone assumes that all these processes are magically
> implemented, ok maybe that's not assumed, but it's definately the
> impression left by many comments. To just throw all the doucment source
> out there and made available via CVS won't solve anything if measures are
> not put into place to protect the docs and their processing/updating? If
> it's only a CVS that's needed/wanted then sure, gimme an hour or two.
> This is not our goal! Long term solutions is the bottom-line.
> I have been preparing a revised QC manifesto that will be published by the
> end of the week. I hope this will solve and/or answer many questions. My
> main objective here is to give all authors/maintainers a means of tracking
> progress. This along with the quality of work *will* be our main
> objectives. And some sort of bug tracking will also be implemented.
> I have talked to Guylhem (not at length) about making my final comments to
> ldp-discuss on all the uproar the past few days, so here I am.
> Unfortunately he misunderstood and thought I was wanting to step down.
> This was not my intent, but the thought has consumed me over the past 24+
> hours and perhaps his misunderstanding is something I should actually
> consider at this point.
> If the LDP is suffering because of me then the matter should be addressed
> and handled appropriately (respectively goes w/out saying). I will
> entertain the idea of stepping down if it is in fact in the best interest
> of the LDP. Linux has given me far too much to let my pride get in the
> way of progress.
> As for disgruntled authors removing their documents from the LDP, just
> doesn't sit well with me. Sure, if that's what they want....then let them
> move on. I honestly can't believe this is the route they would choose to
> take, but if it is......well perhaps they should. I do know this, if
> every disgruntled Linux coder had the same views, we would *not* be having
> this dicussion b/c there would be no Linux. To up and go taking your docs
> with you is just plain childish. That is *not* directed at Vladimir, but
> more to any author who feels this way. If I have personal comments for
> any author, I'll do the repectful thing and personally make them.....not
> Perhaps this is my undoing, but I honestly felt that something had to be
> said. I have too much respect for everyone involved to just let it pass
> and allow the discomfort that is present now to continue. I owe it to you
> as well as myself to rectify any and all problems/complaints that are
> directly related to me.
> Best Regards,
> Linux HOWTO coordinator http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO
> firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com (HOWTO's)
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